Networking Library

[Elfinitiy]

Hello Irrlicht Forums!
Me and my friend are working on a MMO game with Irrlicht.
But we need a good network library that is close to the LGPL/MIT license or atleast let's our project be commercial.
We were writting our own Network lib,but its kinda verry buggy,and we didn't want to spend half-our time debuging when we could make the game.
So can you tell me a good Networking Library/Engine ?

[kazymjir]

Hello!

Check this:
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/ ... 58&start=0

[Virror]

Im using RakNet. Very good library with alot of features. All free until Gross Revenues exceeds $100,000. By then you can afford a license : )

[Radikalizm]

and we didn't want to spend half-our time debuging when we could make the game.

You do realize that 90% of programming is debugging, right?

[Elfinitiy]

and we didn't want to spend half-our time debuging when we could make the game.

You do realize that 90% of programming is debugging, right?

Debugging the game,not WinSockets.While writting the Network lib,most of the time i was just making stuff work,like async sockets,rather then send/recv player data,and debug problems.
Anyway ... thnaks for your anwsers (:

[CuteAlien]

There's a list in the wiki: http://www.irrlicht3d.org/wiki/index.ph ... kLibraries

[Radikalizm]

Is it ok if I ask you a question about your project? It kind of feel obligatory for MMO projects these days, to ask this

What's your previous game programming experience, and how far are you into development of this project? Do you have a team of people working on this, any kind of funding?

I don't want to be annoying or rude by asking this, but it's just that we see quite a few people who want to make an MMO from time to time saying that their project will be different from all the others and that they will, unlike others, succeed in completing the game
After that, 2 things mostly happen:
1. Those people come back, admit that their project failed quite early in development and start work on something smaller, or
2. The project is never heard of afterward and the people working on it just seem to vanish

Again, I don't want to be rude, but are you aware of the magnitude of MMOs and the amount of work and money it costs to develop and maintain them?

[Elfinitiy]

Well,if you played Terraria I think you will get the idea of the MMO.
Something 2D and Simple,with minimal features.And if people like it,we will upgrade.Sorta like Minecraft did it.
The team is me and my friend.Minimal Game Dev Exp.

[Virror]

Well, making online games is alot of fun ; )
And it does not have to be that much harder to make than a singleplayer game if you keep it simple.

[Radikalizm]

Well, making online games is alot of fun ; )
And it does not have to be that much harder to make than a singleplayer game if you keep it simple.

Most people forget however that MMOs, even very simple ones, need to be hosted, managed and updated full-time after being released, and time has proven that that doesn't really work that well with a small group of volunteers without any funding

There's a difference between online games where a server just provides the hosting for a game session, a peer-to-peer connection where a client acts as a server, and MMOs which need the server to carry a huge load of managing the world, players, events, etc.

[Virror]

All true : )
I make my game more for the fun of coding though : p
Will be very surprised myself if i get anything released, but i hope i can get a demo out it the near future atleast ; )

[Elfinitiy]

Well, making online games is alot of fun ; )
And it does not have to be that much harder to make than a singleplayer game if you keep it simple.

Most people forget however that MMOs, even very simple ones, need to be hosted, managed and updated full-time after being released, and time has proven that that doesn't really work that well with a small group of volunteers without any funding

There's a difference between online games where a server just provides the hosting for a game session, a peer-to-peer connection where a client acts as a server, and MMOs which need the server to carry a huge load of managing the world, players, events, etc.

Parents are funding xD.
I hosted about 6 CS 1.6 servers with 32 players.
32 * 6 = 192 Players online,and I played L4D2 with no problems.
The Problem here is not that a game will never be finished,but never played.
If i can get 192 players in 2 Weeks than the game is good,and I can make subscriptions and stuff.
The Steam game Alien Swarm is not supported,but people saied that they are willing to play for it if Valve would support it.
All and all people try to make MMORPG like WoW/L2,and thats where the problem is.The Engine of WoW is made +- in 4 years by a Handful of devs,while the hobbyist try to do the same except that they are 10 people and I'm sure that they are less or equal to Collage students who want to make this MMO... their first project.Its bound to fail

[Radikalizm]

Keep in mind that hosting a dedicated server for an already existing game is completely different from hosting a server for your own game (especially if it's an MMO)

When hosting a dedicated server for another game you are not responsible for updates and/or possible vulnerabilities, the company that created the game is responsible for that, while with your own game it's up to you to guarantee security of your software, and to provide all necessary updates

A lot of glitches which can get the player stuck or which can cause unwanted behavior (eg. massive killing sprees in zones where player-killing shouldn't be possible) occur in various popular MMOs, these glitches need immediate admin/moderator assistance, meaning that you'll need a team working full-time on moderating your game if you don't want people to get frustrated
These kind of glitches do not appear in FPS dedicated servers, since most of these are session-based, where each player starts over after each session

This massive amount of administration + the massive amount of content needed to make an MMO is overlooked by a lot of people
Even if the core game mechanics are all in place, this can still kill the most ambitious MMO projects

In the end, nobody can stop you from attempting to create one, but keep in mind that rarely any hobbyist MMOs get to a playable state, and that a lot of experienced game developers stay away from them for the reasons stated above

[Elfinitiy]

Ok so i looked at the Network libraries,and they seem too complex.I can actually make something close myself.RakNet seems simple,but I'm interested do I need to be an adult(18/21 years) to take the hobbyist licence ?

[serengeor]

Ok so i looked at the Network libraries,and they seem too complex.

Are you sure it's for your abilities to do this project? I mean if you can't even handle a networking library how are you going to put up all of the stuff you need for the game to make it work?
I've been programming my single player marble game project for about 1.5 year(?) and it still nowhere near to finish. I don't even have a good demo.

One thing is to want something, other thing is to be able to do it.