Todays religions

[omar shaaban]

as the site says:
"
The origins of life according to the Qur'an

There are at least 60 verses which deal explicitly with human reproduction and development, but these are scattered throughout the Qur'an and many of the themes are repeated over and over again, as is common to much of the book. A useful place to begin would be the material out of which we are created. One would expect the Qur'an to be unambiguous about such an elementary matter, but the verses listed show just how much uncertainty there appears to be in our origins. Note that except where indicated the translation used is the translation of Yusuf Ali (Saudi Revised Edition).

Could it be from earth?

11:61 It is He Who hath produced you from the earth

Or dry clay (Arabic Salsaal)?

15:26,28,33 We created man from sounding clay
17:61 ... Thou didst create from clay
32:7 He began the creation of man from clay

Did we come from nothing?

19:67 We created him before out of nothing

No, we did not!

52:35 Were they created of nothing?
"

lets take it word my word bec this site misunderstood the words:
" It is He Who hath produced you from the earth" allah means that the man was created from clay .


15:26,28,33 We created man from sounding clay
17:61 ... Thou didst create from clay
32:7 He began the creation of man from clay
yes god began our creation from clay ,god made adam the first human with clay then he let him till he dried then allah blow from his soul to adam and made him a live and then our dna carrys the clay properties tell know!
ofcourse in certain arts of our body like our skin.

We created him before out of nothing
nothing here means the soul and that god created human out from his creation!!
and also this site:http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/embryo.html
"""
The drop of fluid or semen

In a number of places we are informed that man is created from a drop of fluid (semen, seed or sperm):
"""
well as of this somebody will tell me did u say that human create from clay and now u say sperm created from clay this taking is abut adam and as i said the properties of adam still in or dna.

[Saturn]

well about the site gave me it contain wron text from qouran :
""Moore however goes further and incredibly he claims in a later edition of his textbook that the Qur'an "states that the resulting organism settles in the womb like a seed, 6 days after its beginning" [9]. This really would be amazing if it was true. Actually the Qur'an says nothing of the sort.""
no that's not true.

Not? Name exact Suras to support your claim. Else this is meaningless.

and about :who created god?
a:the small and limited mind of humans will not figure it out!! but only some existence of things makes us believe that god created all this.

So, if the small and limited mind cannot make out what/who god created, how can it make out that god exists? Isn't it then just as likely that your small and limited mind does just confuse "understanding" with personal incredulity? This is a stupid argument. It requires the human mind to be understanding and clever and small and stupid at the same time. Doesn't work.

and also about this site :http://www.islamic.org.uk/internalc.html
it doenst understand what qouran means(and it seams he is also weak in math
)

You fail to provide anything substantial. What math exactly and why exactly is it wrong? And what part exactly shows misunderstandment and why? Don't try cheap shots.

and yes if u didnt believe in all the prophets then u are not a muslem.

So it is ok, to kill me? (Qur'an 9:5 and many other places)

and what do u believe we are created for? and where we will go after we die??

I don't believe I have been created by some god in the first place, so this is no question, that is worthy of an answer from my POV. My life has the purpose I myself give to it. So I can just as well give the question back to you: What is your personal purpose in life? What have *you* been created for?

Also, why didn't you answer my questions? You ask questions, I answer them, but you fail to answer my questions? Why do you chicken out? I might not know the Koran as well as you do, but I am quite sure, that there are rules against cowardice. So speak up!

[Phant0m51]

As much as I like religious debates, this one is getting a bit out of hand. Not all muslims are terrorists, but some are. Same goes for any religion. Even Christians went rogue and started the Crusade.

You can't stereotype anybody because of a specific religion. What religion you believe in depends on what part of the world you come from. There have been so many religions, with so many different gods (from polytheism [multiple gods] to monotheism [single god]), that you can't argue about a specific religion being the 'true' religion without some other religion, from a completely different part of the world, claiming that they have the 'true' religion and yours is wrong.

It's just how it is. I'm Atheist (don't believe in god) and carry my own beliefs about how different things were created and destroyed. Am I correct? I think so, but I can't prove it. Exactly like you can't prove that your god exists. Sure, you can believe that your god (or any god[s]) exists, but you cannot prove it, so you must have faith (believing in something you cannot prove). Exactly like I have faith in the fact that there is no god.

[omar shaaban]

As much as I like religious debates, this one is getting a bit out of hand. Not all muslims are terrorists, but some are. Same goes for any religion. Even Christians went rogue and started the Crusade.

You can't stereotype anybody because of a specific religion. What religion you believe in depends on what part of the world you come from. There have been so many religions, with so many different gods (from polytheism [multiple gods] to monotheism [single god]), that you can't argue about a specific religion being the 'true' religion without some other religion, from a completely different part of the world, claiming that they have the 'true' religion and yours is wrong.

It's just how it is. I'm Atheist (don't believe in god) and carry my own beliefs about how different things were created and destroyed. Am I correct? I think so, but I can't prove it. Exactly like you can't prove that your god exists. Sure, you can believe that your god (or any god[s]) exists, but you cannot prove it, so you must have faith (believing in something you cannot prove). Exactly like I have faith in the fact that there is no god.

first i prove that god exists (if u read my posts)
and second there are only one way to the right not many.....so there are only one relegion is right and it is islam but that doesnt mean that the bible is wrong no it is right but it was changed so the islam came with the koran the islam.

[monkeycracks]

I'm not familiar with the Quo'ran (As I probably didn't spell it right), but they are Muslims as they follow the Quo'ran(sp.) and such; they're just radicals. They believe in the 'Convert or die' stuff, generally resulting in the latter. They believe they'll have eternal salvation if they die fighting their enemies, so that's what they do. Extremists are dangerous as you see...

If you weren't born and raised believing your religion, I'm sure you'd be on this side of the debate. It's unfortunate that children can't choose their religion as they grow up rather than have it forced on them.

Fortunately, Christianity was easy to push off

[Saturn]

as the site says:
"
The origins of life according to the Qur'an

There are at least 60 verses which deal explicitly with human reproduction and development, but these are scattered throughout the Qur'an and many of the themes are repeated over and over again, as is common to much of the book. A useful place to begin would be the material out of which we are created. One would expect the Qur'an to be unambiguous about such an elementary matter, but the verses listed show just how much uncertainty there appears to be in our origins. Note that except where indicated the translation used is the translation of Yusuf Ali (Saudi Revised Edition).

Could it be from earth?

11:61 It is He Who hath produced you from the earth

Or dry clay (Arabic Salsaal)?

15:26,28,33 We created man from sounding clay
17:61 ... Thou didst create from clay
32:7 He began the creation of man from clay

Did we come from nothing?

19:67 We created him before out of nothing

No, we did not!

52:35 Were they created of nothing?
"

lets take it word my word bec this site misunderstood the words:
" It is He Who hath produced you from the earth" allah means that the man was created from clay .


15:26,28,33 We created man from sounding clay
17:61 ... Thou didst create from clay
32:7 He began the creation of man from clay
yes god began our creation from clay ,god made adam the first human with clay then he let him till he dried then allah blow from his soul to adam and made him a live and then our dna carrys the clay properties tell know!
ofcourse in certain arts of our body like our skin.

We created him before out of nothing
nothing here means the soul and that god created human out from his creation!!
and also this site:http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/embryo.html
"""
The drop of fluid or semen

In a number of places we are informed that man is created from a drop of fluid (semen, seed or sperm):
"""
well as of this somebody will tell me did u say that human create from clay and now u say sperm created from clay this taking is abut adam and as i said the properties of adam still in or dna.

Sorry, this came in while I was writing my post. But it is completely unconvincing. What's your point? I don't believe that there was an Adam. So I don't care whether this non-existant Adam has been made of clay or not and also I don't quite get the jump from fluid semen to DNA. That man has fluid semen is kind of obvious to any male hitting puberty. That this means DNA isn't and that there is haploid DNA that merges with the haploid DNA in a female egg during fertilisation can't be read form the quoted text even with the most aggresive exegeses.

Phant0m51, I guess the muslim==terrorist-question is left behind. This is not anymore about this question. Omar shaaban shot himself in the foot with his second post, trying to legitimize the terror.

bitplane, agreed, but from all the conflicts you named, religion is the strongest. No Macist will kill a Windowician in a suicide bombing.

TheRLG, I am sorry, but still unconvinced. Why call this fluffy something(or another) "God"? If God is just a tag to slap onto something we don't grasp (yet), we might just as well drop the concept. Also it seams to be, to me at least, in opposition to christian belief. To me christian believe at least means to believe things in some christian creed. Be it the Apostles' Creed or Nicene Creed and these Creeds are very specific about some virgin and some trinity. Personally I am Christian in so far, that I owe them much of my cultural heritage. But this doesn't make me Christian in belief. And the god you postulated has nothing Christian in itself, it could be a completely different Being.

[omar shaaban]

I'm not familiar with the Quo'ran (As I probably didn't spell it right), but they are Muslims as they follow the Quo'ran(sp.) and such; they're just radicals. They believe in the 'Convert or die' stuff, generally resulting in the latter. They believe they'll have eternal salvation if they die fighting their enemies, so that's what they do. Extremists are dangerous as you see...

If you weren't born and raised believing your religion, I'm sure you'd be on this side of the debate. It's unfortunate that children can't choose their religion as they grow up rather than have it forced on them.

Fortunately, Christianity was easy to push off

and i thank god that i am a muslem bec it is v.hard if u are christian or anything else to be a muslem and
God created the universe so he will not be able to make one go to heaven if he died fighting his enemy ofcourse he can .

[omar shaaban]

ok Saturn:
why aren't u answering my questions and i will write them again(that u dont believe in god):
1-how we were created and the universe?
2- when we die where will we go?
3- and if u say there is no god and that after 60 or 70 years i will die so what i will do is to kill all the people and get their money(that would the mind say"")so i can live the 60 or 70 years in happy life.
4-how old are u?(i know it is a personal question but n i guess..)

[Saturn]

As much as I like religious debates, this one is getting a bit out of hand. Not all muslims are terrorists, but some are. Same goes for any religion. Even Christians went rogue and started the Crusade.

You can't stereotype anybody because of a specific religion. What religion you believe in depends on what part of the world you come from. There have been so many religions, with so many different gods (from polytheism [multiple gods] to monotheism [single god]), that you can't argue about a specific religion being the 'true' religion without some other religion, from a completely different part of the world, claiming that they have the 'true' religion and yours is wrong.

It's just how it is. I'm Atheist (don't believe in god) and carry my own beliefs about how different things were created and destroyed. Am I correct? I think so, but I can't prove it. Exactly like you can't prove that your god exists. Sure, you can believe that your god (or any god[s]) exists, but you cannot prove it, so you must have faith (believing in something you cannot prove). Exactly like I have faith in the fact that there is no god.

first i prove that god exists (if u read my posts)
and second there are only one way to the right not many.....so there are only one relegion is right and it is islam but that doesnt mean that the bible is wrong no it is right but it was changed so the islam came with the koran the islam.

I guess we can stop this here. This is as preposterous as it gets.
You did not prove that God created even the poop that dogs crap out, save for everything else in the universe.

Your posts are completely tautological. You are right, if you are right. But you aren't in the first place!
You're following blind faith in the most abominable way of all. It is just your kind of thinking that leads people to commit terroristic acts. Totally oblivious to factual argument, trapped in irrational believe.

If you wanted us to make believe, that Islam (what an euphemism as word itself!) doesn't necessarily mean terrorism, then you spectacularly failed.

[omar shaaban]

As much as I like religious debates, this one is getting a bit out of hand. Not all muslims are terrorists, but some are. Same goes for any religion. Even Christians went rogue and started the Crusade.

You can't stereotype anybody because of a specific religion. What religion you believe in depends on what part of the world you come from. There have been so many religions, with so many different gods (from polytheism [multiple gods] to monotheism [single god]), that you can't argue about a specific religion being the 'true' religion without some other religion, from a completely different part of the world, claiming that they have the 'true' religion and yours is wrong.

It's just how it is. I'm Atheist (don't believe in god) and carry my own beliefs about how different things were created and destroyed. Am I correct? I think so, but I can't prove it. Exactly like you can't prove that your god exists. Sure, you can believe that your god (or any god[s]) exists, but you cannot prove it, so you must have faith (believing in something you cannot prove). Exactly like I have faith in the fact that there is no god.

first i prove that god exists (if u read my posts)
and second there are only one way to the right not many.....so there are only one relegion is right and it is islam but that doesnt mean that the bible is wrong no it is right but it was changed so the islam came with the koran the islam.

I guess we can stop this here. This is as preposterous as it gets.
You did not prove that God created even the ***** that dogs crap out, save for everything else in the universe.

Your posts are completely tautological. You are right, if you are right. But you aren't in the first place!
You're following blind faith in the most abominable way of all. It is just your kind of thinking that leads people to commit terroristic acts. Totally oblivious to factual argument, trapped in irrational believe.

If you wanted us to make believe, that Islam (what an euphemism as word itself!) doesn't necessarily mean terrorism, then you spectacularly failed.

but i see your point of view s totally wrong anyway why did u answer my questions!!?(and lz be ware of every word say bec u maybe wrong and their is allah who will punish u really for this...and of course there is Allah)
and again i say answer my four questions...

[Luben]

This generally describes my view of omnipowers and such.
http://bible.istheshit.net/

But religion is much more than that. Fundamentally, it is about answering the eternal questions. (Which in itself sounds dumb ).

A very common thing in religions is morals. But that is often put aside. For example, the danish dudes who drew pictures of mohammed most probably missed the hole point of christianity, which is the morals, and not omnipowers of saints or rites and such. Had they got the point, they would have respected the muslims beliefs. But at the same time, some muslim minister who was visiting a museum in sweden happened to see a painting that a dude in isreal had made(I think this was the cause, or it might have been something equally dumb). He then went mad and attacked the paintings, totally disregarding morals and respect for other people, which is fundamental to any religion.

[bitplane]

I've been in enough religious debates to know that religious people are usually not very good at debate.
It's a rare pleasure to find a theist with a talent for argument, as they are usually on the verge of losing their faith - the logical ones have already argued themselves out of religious belief.
Anyway, I think I'll step out of this thread, someone let me know when it gets out of control and needs locking.

[omar shaaban]

This generally describes my view of omnipowers and such.
http://bible.istheshit.net/

But religion is much more than that. Fundamentally, it is about answering the eternal questions. (Which in itself sounds dumb ).

A very common thing in religions is morals. But that is often put aside. For example, the danish dudes who drew pictures of mohammed most probably missed the hole point of christianity, which is the morals, and not omnipowers of saints or rites and such. Had they got the point, they would have respected the muslims beliefs. But at the same time, some muslim minister who was visiting a museum in sweden happened to see a painting that a dude in isreal had made(I think this was the cause, or it might have been something equally dumb). He then went mad and attacked the paintings, totally disregarding morals and respect for other people, which is fundamental to any religion.

not all muslems are angels some of them are bad and some of them are good..

[monkeycracks]

but i see your point of view s totally wrong anyway why did u answer my questions!!?(and lz be ware of every word say bec u maybe wrong and their is allah who will punish u really for this...and of course there is Allah)
and again i say answer my four questions...

I'm calling you out Allah!

Hahah, anyways.

Nice pic Zeno.

Also, Saturn is right, you've not given us tangible evidence of God's existance.

[zeno60]

Hey Saturn ...