Todays religions
To answer the original post, do I think Muslims are terrorists?
In discussion I take on the infuriating side depending on who I talk to.
I have nothing against Muslims for the most part. I was very polite to the Muslim couple who tried to convert me after I changed their tire for them (they didn't have a jack, and even though he said I didn't have to I decided to change it for them since I'd have to wait around for my jack anyway). I didn't insult their religion or say anything about how they're the bastard half-brothers of the Chosen People.
I just listened, when they finished I asked if they wanted me to follow behind them (they were on a donut, there was no place open to get a tire, and I don't even trust those things for two miles), and when they said "no thank you" I told them the cheapest place to get a good tire the next morning (there were cheaper places, but their tires are crap).
However, there was also a Muslim who engaged me when he found out I was a Christian. He actually started blaming me for the Crusades. Of course, being combative by nature, I told my co-worker, loud enough for the man to hear, to check his car for explosives.
So do I believe that Muslims are terrorists? No. I'm no more suspicious of a Muslim than I am anyone else (even though I'm suspicious of everyone as whenever I get around the general public I get the feeling that I'm going to get a beating).
Would I treat you as a terrorist in person? Don't try to tie me to the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, the Catholic priest child molestation scandal, Andrea Yates, David Koresh, etc. and I won't try to tie you to the World Trade Center.
TheRLG, Jesus most likely called God "Father." While I spend most of my time in Proverbs and the Sermon on the Mount and not as much as I should in other areas, as far as I understand the Sanhiedran wanted Christ crucified for blasphemy, one of those blasphemies being that he claimed to be the Son of God.
Saturn, if you can answer where matter came from you'll be on your way to understanding the "who created God" conundrum. I learned in school that matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only changed. Unless recent discoveries have dispelled that notion (I was in 8th grade when I learned that, so it's been about twelve years) then matter and energy had to have always existed. So how is it not logical, then, to believe that the same matter that eventually formed us and the same energy that enables our cognitive functions at one point wasn't part of a beyond sapient being? And how do we know that the change in matter and energy to the form we know now destroyed this being?
Monkeycracks, how do you explain those who grew up in homes hostile towards religion converting?
My senior year we had an exchange student from New Zealand. Her parents were atheists, her grandparents were atheists, and she was an atheist. On top of that, her host family was so fanatical in their atheism that they were constantly trying to make the churches in their town inaccessible. Every t-shirt she wore was in insult to the God of Abraham, any time we'd pass a church on the bus she'd try to throw some trash onto the property if the driver wasn't paying attention, and if she sneezed and you said "God bless you" she'd go into a long rant that ended up with her giving you the finger.
Knowing her host family and what she told me of her upbringing, what you said could be applied to her atheism. However, one day she did a complete 180. Actually requested a Bible from my pastor's daughter, started reading it, and converted. No one had tried to convert her, either. She told me that she was just curious, wanted to see what it said, then one thing led to another. Of course, her host family kicked her out and she didn't have a home to return to in New Zealand.
So how can you explain a woman growing up not only to disbelieve, but despise religion turn into a devoted follower of Christ without having had the teachings shoved down her throat?
There's more to it than upbringing, my friend.
In discussion I take on the infuriating side depending on who I talk to.
I have nothing against Muslims for the most part. I was very polite to the Muslim couple who tried to convert me after I changed their tire for them (they didn't have a jack, and even though he said I didn't have to I decided to change it for them since I'd have to wait around for my jack anyway). I didn't insult their religion or say anything about how they're the bastard half-brothers of the Chosen People.
I just listened, when they finished I asked if they wanted me to follow behind them (they were on a donut, there was no place open to get a tire, and I don't even trust those things for two miles), and when they said "no thank you" I told them the cheapest place to get a good tire the next morning (there were cheaper places, but their tires are crap).
However, there was also a Muslim who engaged me when he found out I was a Christian. He actually started blaming me for the Crusades. Of course, being combative by nature, I told my co-worker, loud enough for the man to hear, to check his car for explosives.
So do I believe that Muslims are terrorists? No. I'm no more suspicious of a Muslim than I am anyone else (even though I'm suspicious of everyone as whenever I get around the general public I get the feeling that I'm going to get a beating).
Would I treat you as a terrorist in person? Don't try to tie me to the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, the Catholic priest child molestation scandal, Andrea Yates, David Koresh, etc. and I won't try to tie you to the World Trade Center.
TheRLG, Jesus most likely called God "Father." While I spend most of my time in Proverbs and the Sermon on the Mount and not as much as I should in other areas, as far as I understand the Sanhiedran wanted Christ crucified for blasphemy, one of those blasphemies being that he claimed to be the Son of God.
Saturn, if you can answer where matter came from you'll be on your way to understanding the "who created God" conundrum. I learned in school that matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only changed. Unless recent discoveries have dispelled that notion (I was in 8th grade when I learned that, so it's been about twelve years) then matter and energy had to have always existed. So how is it not logical, then, to believe that the same matter that eventually formed us and the same energy that enables our cognitive functions at one point wasn't part of a beyond sapient being? And how do we know that the change in matter and energy to the form we know now destroyed this being?
Monkeycracks, how do you explain those who grew up in homes hostile towards religion converting?
My senior year we had an exchange student from New Zealand. Her parents were atheists, her grandparents were atheists, and she was an atheist. On top of that, her host family was so fanatical in their atheism that they were constantly trying to make the churches in their town inaccessible. Every t-shirt she wore was in insult to the God of Abraham, any time we'd pass a church on the bus she'd try to throw some trash onto the property if the driver wasn't paying attention, and if she sneezed and you said "God bless you" she'd go into a long rant that ended up with her giving you the finger.
Knowing her host family and what she told me of her upbringing, what you said could be applied to her atheism. However, one day she did a complete 180. Actually requested a Bible from my pastor's daughter, started reading it, and converted. No one had tried to convert her, either. She told me that she was just curious, wanted to see what it said, then one thing led to another. Of course, her host family kicked her out and she didn't have a home to return to in New Zealand.
So how can you explain a woman growing up not only to disbelieve, but despise religion turn into a devoted follower of Christ without having had the teachings shoved down her throat?
There's more to it than upbringing, my friend.
Those who call the faithful 'sheep' do not realize that they themselves are sheep. We follow one shepherd, they follow another.
-
jreuschel1
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:51 pm
- Contact:
Is there a god or is there not?
Is there belief or is there not?
bible:
In the beginning god created.....
science:
Matter cannot be created or destroyed
maybe in the beginning god BECAME...
...
...
...
Alpha and Omega, beginning and end.....
the universe cycles to become god again at the end....
there is no end or beginning of time.
I don't know.... credit to the uncomprehension of god, maybe god thinks in BASICA and the created think in C++ or the other way around.
god made man in his own image.
the universe is a sphere (extends infinitely in EVERY direction)
a sphere is not man.
the bible exists as all other things exist whether prime or product.
You could trace to the "origins" of the bible to the "beginning of time" and you would cross many lines in the process.
Yeah, anybody who picks up a book and says this is the KEY to eternal life seems pretty extreme to me. unless it is.
i guess you could maybe flip a coin at a unicorn and hit it 50 times if there were a unicorn and a coin but everyone should already know this.
it is in basic math and comprehension that we know things like this and that comprehension either comes from a god(if you are created) or not.
if god comes from the realm of non-human-comprehension, i guess i don't get it. and if god comes from the realm of "I get it", well, i get it.
scientifically, there was an original muslim or whatever that begat some half muslims that begat some other partial muslims al the way to the fractional muslims that run around with bombs blowing stuff up. if they are killing non muslims then we're all f**k*d.
but i want to go to heaven too, so my rear is mine. everybody gets pissed when you want to kill them, i've gathered, so everybody kill yourself and we all go to heaven for killing a non muslim. except adam, (who will go to heaven anyway, he was already in the garden of eden (eternal life) so it is not much of a thing to realize he is somewhat in god's favor, just pissed at eve), and me, cause i decided screw heaven. I'll take what i got. I don't want to die. but my rear is still mine, or it wouldn't be me who is judged by god for what i do or i wouldn't be held responsible (or I don't get it).
which makes me feel more like i think god felt at the "beginning" where he had nothing but a future full of options. (so i might be i god's image after all, though i don't feel like a ball (or I don't get it), and i have some past to go with that future.)
so god becomes god becomes god becomes god becomes god becomes god over and over. (you could say god is a constant)
i predict god will become god in the future.
there is also the law of equal and opposiite.
with god balanced out, there is no god. only balance.
with no god, I am an athiest and do not believe in my god or anyone elses.
well, that's about all the crazy talk i have for right now.
i'll check back later to see what the believer's in gods and books have to say.
Is there belief or is there not?
bible:
In the beginning god created.....
science:
Matter cannot be created or destroyed
maybe in the beginning god BECAME...
...
...
...
Alpha and Omega, beginning and end.....
the universe cycles to become god again at the end....
there is no end or beginning of time.
I don't know.... credit to the uncomprehension of god, maybe god thinks in BASICA and the created think in C++ or the other way around.
god made man in his own image.
the universe is a sphere (extends infinitely in EVERY direction)
a sphere is not man.
the bible exists as all other things exist whether prime or product.
You could trace to the "origins" of the bible to the "beginning of time" and you would cross many lines in the process.
Yeah, anybody who picks up a book and says this is the KEY to eternal life seems pretty extreme to me. unless it is.
i guess you could maybe flip a coin at a unicorn and hit it 50 times if there were a unicorn and a coin but everyone should already know this.
it is in basic math and comprehension that we know things like this and that comprehension either comes from a god(if you are created) or not.
if god comes from the realm of non-human-comprehension, i guess i don't get it. and if god comes from the realm of "I get it", well, i get it.
scientifically, there was an original muslim or whatever that begat some half muslims that begat some other partial muslims al the way to the fractional muslims that run around with bombs blowing stuff up. if they are killing non muslims then we're all f**k*d.
but i want to go to heaven too, so my rear is mine. everybody gets pissed when you want to kill them, i've gathered, so everybody kill yourself and we all go to heaven for killing a non muslim. except adam, (who will go to heaven anyway, he was already in the garden of eden (eternal life) so it is not much of a thing to realize he is somewhat in god's favor, just pissed at eve), and me, cause i decided screw heaven. I'll take what i got. I don't want to die. but my rear is still mine, or it wouldn't be me who is judged by god for what i do or i wouldn't be held responsible (or I don't get it).
which makes me feel more like i think god felt at the "beginning" where he had nothing but a future full of options. (so i might be i god's image after all, though i don't feel like a ball (or I don't get it), and i have some past to go with that future.)
so god becomes god becomes god becomes god becomes god becomes god over and over. (you could say god is a constant)
i predict god will become god in the future.
there is also the law of equal and opposiite.
with god balanced out, there is no god. only balance.
with no god, I am an athiest and do not believe in my god or anyone elses.
well, that's about all the crazy talk i have for right now.
i'll check back later to see what the believer's in gods and books have to say.
Well, there's a new religion. The anti-religion. I don't get why ppl don't just respect other positions and thinkings... That wont help for understanding the neighbour in a single bit. And even the most religious neighbour has something nice to offer. Just same with the most extreme atheist.
Besides, to "convince" the other of one of the two main options (there is, there is not) is really difficult thing to happen. So I see wrong ways(more similar in their lack of tolerance than the parts would like to admit) of doing in both sides. Very rarely see people respecting the opposite position(and maybe giving it the benefit of doubt, both sides).
But very funnily, lately I see loads of attacks to people that believe(in whichever the religion), in a very similar style to what the religious people have been acused of (often with a reason) in past times/centuries. Acting just the same, that sort of persecution and need to "abolish any other way of thinking than mine". Give it a thought. I am not positioning myself here, but really dislike when ppl start to try to disallow other thinkings....as...if ...it was an strong need(something that I happen to find curious, in the least)... Dunno, I myself have enough to think as to care on how wrong or right is the other ppl in these deep areas...
I may understand a discussion on if a 3d converter is better than other, as is terribly easy to find out a solution, but in this...Of course, respect full conversation about any matter(also this one), that is a great welcome thing.
Of course, extremist in both sides, untolerant, violent ppl, to me are a minority. Is a terrible error to stablish a version of people, a valid model, for *large* amounts of people, just judging for that violent guy, or for that old uncle with some problem in his mind that forced into him certain way of thinking...Racism, and other hates, just start that way, misunderstading and finally , wars.
Is lately really something I am starting to strongly dislike, how ppl have an strong ability to not tolearate other ppl's ways of doing and thinking...
As if there was not enough to do each self to build your life and thinking..
My two cents.
Besides, to "convince" the other of one of the two main options (there is, there is not) is really difficult thing to happen. So I see wrong ways(more similar in their lack of tolerance than the parts would like to admit) of doing in both sides. Very rarely see people respecting the opposite position(and maybe giving it the benefit of doubt, both sides).
But very funnily, lately I see loads of attacks to people that believe(in whichever the religion), in a very similar style to what the religious people have been acused of (often with a reason) in past times/centuries. Acting just the same, that sort of persecution and need to "abolish any other way of thinking than mine". Give it a thought. I am not positioning myself here, but really dislike when ppl start to try to disallow other thinkings....as...if ...it was an strong need(something that I happen to find curious, in the least)... Dunno, I myself have enough to think as to care on how wrong or right is the other ppl in these deep areas...
I may understand a discussion on if a 3d converter is better than other, as is terribly easy to find out a solution, but in this...Of course, respect full conversation about any matter(also this one), that is a great welcome thing.
Of course, extremist in both sides, untolerant, violent ppl, to me are a minority. Is a terrible error to stablish a version of people, a valid model, for *large* amounts of people, just judging for that violent guy, or for that old uncle with some problem in his mind that forced into him certain way of thinking...Racism, and other hates, just start that way, misunderstading and finally , wars.
Is lately really something I am starting to strongly dislike, how ppl have an strong ability to not tolearate other ppl's ways of doing and thinking...
As if there was not enough to do each self to build your life and thinking..
My two cents.
Finally making games again!
http://www.konekogames.com
http://www.konekogames.com
why ppl have bo tolerance? because community made them to do! very rarely man educates himself, usualy parents and community do that. if community would not be rotten peace of s_h_i_t there wouldnt be crimes and wars. i know from my own experience that influence of community acts big part in education of the man. if i would live in america where life is easy maybe i would be flower man and i would think that world is nice, but now i live in Lithuanina and i think that world is nothing more than wild and predators around. stays only strongest here...unfortunately... 
so how do you think predator reacts to its enemy? no respect - killing instinct. thats why we have lots of b_u_l_l_s_h_i_t.
so how do you think predator reacts to its enemy? no respect - killing instinct. thats why we have lots of b_u_l_l_s_h_i_t.Vermeer makes good points as always, however I think there's a difference between respecting a person who holds a belief and respecting the belief its self.
I have as much respect for religious belief as I do for the belief that the earth is flat, but that doesn't mean I lack tolerance or harbour hatred for flatlanders or religious people. In fact, I don't think I can even dislike someone without knowing them first, it doesn't make sense.
I don't think *any* idea should be above debate, so religion (as a system of ideas) should not be offered any more protection than, for example, a political viewpoint.
"when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest hypothetical entities"
The God Hypothesis is illogical- to assume the universe was created by a sapient being introduces complexity for the sake of complexity. As for the Abhamic God, the FSM Hypothesis is equally as valid. To believe something without evidence because an old book says so is the same as blindly believing in Russell's Teapot
I sympathise with the pantheistic view that the universe its self is God, but with no evidence to back it up it is just another nice fantasy.
I have as much respect for religious belief as I do for the belief that the earth is flat, but that doesn't mean I lack tolerance or harbour hatred for flatlanders or religious people. In fact, I don't think I can even dislike someone without knowing them first, it doesn't make sense.
I don't think *any* idea should be above debate, so religion (as a system of ideas) should not be offered any more protection than, for example, a political viewpoint.
Occam's rasor :dwmitch wrote: So how is it not logical, then, to believe that the same matter that eventually formed us and the same energy that enables our cognitive functions at one point wasn't part of a beyond sapient being?
"when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest hypothetical entities"
The God Hypothesis is illogical- to assume the universe was created by a sapient being introduces complexity for the sake of complexity. As for the Abhamic God, the FSM Hypothesis is equally as valid. To believe something without evidence because an old book says so is the same as blindly believing in Russell's Teapot
I sympathise with the pantheistic view that the universe its self is God, but with no evidence to back it up it is just another nice fantasy.
Re: Are Moslems terrorists ?
All that it totally horrible... and no - Moslens aren´t terrorist, but many of the terrorists today are moslems - who believes that it´s their right to kill other people in the name of their god - and that they will be rewarded with a bunch of virgins if the get themselves blown up. Very strange - I would say.omar shaaban wrote:I am a Moslem and i want to see what do u think about Islam and what happens in Iraq and Palestine and the "11 September "
The problem is a nasty mix of religon, lack of education, lack of wealth and lack of commen sense - and not the moslems in general.