DirectX 9 compared with DirectX 10 in pictures

sRc · Post by **sRc** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:42 am

oh wow, what a reaction...

the fish example is example of the geometry shader, and its in the DirectX10 previews in the latest DirectX SDK. in this case they do displacement mapping with it, but its supposed to be capable of a lot more (and since its running in the shader units its directly accessable by the pixel shaders in the new unified shader model, making it perform a lot better than would be right now)

heres an article that explains some of the new shader:

http://www.behardware.com/art/imprimer/631/

Electron · Post by **Electron** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:18 am

but its supposed to be capable of a lot more (and since its running in the shader units its directly accessable by the pixel shaders in the new unified shader model, making it perform a lot better than would be right now)

I'm sure D3d 10 will have some cool stuff, and I'll certainly admit geometry shaders sound useful, here's to hoping GL gets them soon. But the point is that showing a displacement mapped fish compared to a non displacement mapped fish and saying "D3D10 can do this, but D3D9 and OGL can't" is simply misleading, which is the reason for our less-than-enthusiastic reactions. For any of it to have any meaning, they at least need to show videos and framerates

Hmm, and according to the link you posted D3D10 will run ONLY on D3D10 capable hardware, which gives us hobbyists a good reason to stay far away from it.

Spintz · Post by **Spintz** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:26 am

The point is Anaconda, you can do stuff like that in DX9 and OpenGL, maybe it's a little slower or more difficult to accomplish, but you can do it.

With as shitty an OS as Vista is( and I'm a Windows fan, I despise Linux, but Vista sucks really, really, really, really bad ) it's just sucks that things like this would only be available in an OS as shitty as Vista.

I'm leaning more and more towards OpenGL everyday, and OpenGL 2.x is even faster right now than DX9. And I don't need new operating systems to use it.

sRc · Post by **sRc** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:12 pm

well you gotta remember, all the things that get added into DirectX 10 will be added into OpenGL as well, as extensions and then eventauly into OGL core. IIRC, when I was reading the OGL 2.1 specification, the Unified Shader model from DX10 was in there, for example.

like it or hate it, it is pushing forward the power and capabilities of 3D graphics, which is benificial to all. you always neeed to buy new hardware for new features (Pixel Shader 3, etc), this is nothing new.

lostclimategames · Post by **lostclimategames** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:16 pm

the geometry shader on the fish is the onley real big thing i mean that scene on the top is bull, all they did is add a second semitransparent ocean shader over the old one, paint on a couple of clouds and wooo hoo! dx 10 must be great. not that it can be done at all with dx9, right... right.....

Spintz · Post by **Spintz** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:50 am

Does that mean OGL 2.1 will require Windows Vista??? The problem I have with DirectX 10, is it will ONLY be supported on Windows Vista and beyond, it will NOT be supported on Windows XP / 2003 Server or before.

And most good hardware already supports PS 3 and VS 3, so thats no big deal.

It's just BS, they are trying to make money from DX now, so they are making you buy a new OS to use, that's the only reason. They claim all this other BS, I'll have to dig up the article, but it's all a load of bull. They could make DX10 work on XP, they just want to try to force everyone to buy Vista.

Have you even tried out Vista? It's such a piece of crap, worse than Win ME.

lostclimategames · Post by **lostclimategames** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:59 am

It's such a piece of crap, worse than Win ME.

d*** i didnt know microsoft could get worse.... well i guess for once they proved me wrong and passed my expectations

sRc · Post by **sRc** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:44 am

Spintz wrote:Does that mean OGL 2.1 will require Windows Vista??? The problem I have with DirectX 10, is it will ONLY be supported on Windows Vista and beyond, it will NOT be supported on Windows XP / 2003 Server or before.

And most good hardware already supports PS 3 and VS 3, so thats no big deal.

It's just BS, they are trying to make money from DX now, so they are making you buy a new OS to use, that's the only reason. They claim all this other BS, I'll have to dig up the article, but it's all a load of bull. They could make DX10 work on XP, they just want to try to force everyone to buy Vista.

Have you even tried out Vista? It's such a piece of crap, worse than Win ME.

yes, ive tried Vista, and have been playing with it and longhorn builds for years. and ive had no problem with it at all (it was working on my notebook better than XP when I had it installed)

changes to the driver model and the windows kernel are why it only works on Vista on. yes, I agree its rather annoying, but the current driver model is horrible in comparision (acceleration for only one app? and only on one monitor? bleh). theyve cleared up a lot of things that are impeding development with the Vista, at the cost of not being able to backport

computers are gonna be all sold with Vista from the release point on, anyway. and thats what the majority of people do, is buy computers with Windows preinstalled.

Electron · Post by **Electron** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:55 am

changes to the driver model and the windows kernel are why it only works on Vista on.

Despite all the horrifying stories a few months ago, it appears that OpenGL is going to work on Vista too. Does that mean it will no longer work on previous Windows versions, Linux, PlayStation, and a million other platforms? I don't think so. ATI and nVidia will of ocurse need to make different versions of the drivers for Vista, but I doubt that means they'll drop all driver support for previous windows versions, not for some years anyway

computers are gonna be all sold with Vista from the release point on, anyway. and thats what the majority of people do, is buy computers with Windows preinstalled.

The problem for DirectX10 is for several years Vista will NOT enjoy a monopoly among your average home user. Even after several years (I lost count), XP is still not by any means the only windows system people have installed. And most current DirectX games will work with at least Windows 2000. If new DirectX games work with ONLY Vista, it will be a big inconvenience for many.

Spintz · Post by **Spintz** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:36 pm

Exactly Electron. I'll learn and work with DX10, simply cause I have to as a developer. A lot of our contracts, people are just comfortable with Microsoft and any new buzzwords they here, they want that in the software, so I'll definitely have to deal with it.

As things are progressing though, as far as working on Irrlicht and IrrSpintz and whatever other hobbies I pick up on, I'm leaning more and more towards OpenGL and learning to hate more and more DirectX( there are also a lot of things I hate about OpenGL as well, but I am just starting to hate more things in/with DX ).

I believe, as you said Anaconda, the problem isn't necessarily with DX, but with Windows and that's a whole nother story all together.

lostclimategames · Post by **lostclimategames** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:43 pm

from what ive read so far is that part of the big deal about directx is that it is being redone almost completely to make it not so bulky, that would be a good thing about it , those pictures completely misrepresent the things that make it better, and apparently dx10 will run faster

omaremad · Post by **omaremad** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:56 am

wikipedia says dx10 wont run dx9 apps

(or any dx<10)

sRc · Post by **sRc** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:34 pm

omaremad wrote:wikipedia says dx10 wont run dx9 apps (or any dx<10)

no, DX10 wont because it doesnt have backwards compatible libraries in it

however, Vista will simultaneously have DX10+, and DX9.0L for apps earlier than DX10 (as well as the 3D interface for Vista is DX9 so it serves that as well)

lostclimategames · Post by **lostclimategames** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:01 am

to be honest i dont think it will be a problem if we dont switch to vista anyways because you know for at least a year or two any game developed is going to have a dx9 and a dx10 version, theyed have to to keep there sales, id say just stick with winXP for a few more years...

Cocodrilo · Post by **Cocodrilo** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:21 pm

But what if i have a graphic card with DX 9.0 ?